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Limited Member Posts: 65 |
Im launching this topic cause I was wondering how you guys working for your ressources balance. Personnally I always try to get closer to 0 in every ressources (if im not planning to age), while sending the most precious crate (wood > gold > food). But in a lot of games, I get a stupid balance (for exemple 0 food 100 wood and 1000 gold). In those case, I first change the my vil repartition, but the change usually occure later and I usually need the missing ressources asap. The fastest solution to this is to rebalance by selling or buying ressources at market, a solution I maybe abuse (I do this all the time lol). The second is to send a shipment of the desired ressource (if you got one). Of course those solutions implies a lost of ressources in tradeof, and should be avoid if possible. But I really think there is no point having to much gold when you need food (or the opposite), even if you will certainly need the gold you did trade later in the game. I often use the market to age up earlier too. Buying what's missing to get the age. Am I the only one to abuse the market tading? | |
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Limited Member Posts: 82 |
I always use market when i have an imbalance in resources. It is better to use market that have resources sitting there doing nothing. | |
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-- Actually yes, The World Does Revolve Around me!
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Limited Member Posts: 288 |
well im with you on this one, people really dont use the market enough. its obviously not something thats ideal (esp. if youre buying food), but if you have the sort of imbalance that you described, ill always use the market to buy some food or wood. that said, the real solution is to watch your ville distribution carefully; make sure you dont have too many villes on gold, or food; if you do, adjust it right away. i use it as a last resort, but only then. however, you are right to try to get as close to zero resources as possible, but this means not gathering resources you wont use (i.e., if you are in a situation where you have 1000 gold and 0 food, you probably arent using any gold at all, and should stop gathering gold). also, the market techs are a great way to spend extra resources - i frequently have all 3 first tier market ups and the 2nd tier food and gold ups by 10 minutes as france | |
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-- Vagina.
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Posts: 290 |
Macro better. It's not that you are abusing the market, but rather ending up with a whack eco, forcing you to use it. It happens to us all, even experts, but I wouldn't call it an abuse, since in most cases using the market is not cost cost effective in most cases. Really I'd send a merc shipment if I found I had that much extra gold. | |
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Limited Member Posts: 65 |
Yea. I love when i fall in those case. Sometimes i got a really bad balance and I found out i have merc… or Spahis, or Urumies or whatever to rebalance (in fact to not waste resources). But I found out I use market in every games. In most of them, when i boom, i put all my vil coming out to wood. I don't remember a game where I didn't sold wood to get the the gold to age… But well, usually market use tell me how i suck… the more i use it… the more i suck… | |
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Limited Member Posts: 65 |
Anyway, I think i abuse this market cause i never follow a a BO. I prefer to have a feeling about vil repartition. Maybe why im so imperfect in so much game (and finally inconsistant). But i think i least i have a feeling about how i should put my vil at | |
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Limited Member Posts: 65 |
sorry for my crappy english… i hope you got my point | |
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Limited Member Posts: 65 |
Btw mag, what you are saying is a dangerous thing to do. In a lot of game where my balance is crappy, i try to rebalance it by doing the opposite. But in those case, my balance never get in a stationary point (dunno if you got this, kinda a numerical analysis point). You always try to compensate too hard your missing ressources and you always got a new ressource missing. Happend to me a lot. I think it's very human to do that. But you have to think carefully when you rebalance, | |
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Limited Member Posts: 167 |
4on wood for house 5on animal for villagers(7 if berry) constant 5xb/5pike=9food15wood constant 5musk=15food7coin constant 5skirm=11food 18coin ...musk is much easier to mass....the only problem is that you'll run out of food too fast :-P in team game, giving your resources to another player might be a good idea. | |
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-- ELO Ladder for Mac: http://sites.google.com/site/frailaenima/elo
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Limited Member Posts: 94 |
Good question, Jin. The market is a communal building, meaning each player dictates buy and sell value. For example, the more food each player possesses, the lower the sell value for food will become (supply and demand 101). That being said, gold has the best initial sell value at the market (keep in mind this fluctuates as more gold is stockpiled by the community). Getting back to your question, trading resources at the market is most often an unfavorable solution to a resource imbalance. However, there are a few circumstances where it is actually beneficial to trade at the market. The Dutch and British, both heavily reliant upon wood, will find it's actually more efficient to gather gold and trade for wood. Every time you sell resources at the market, however, the exchange rate increases. Therefore, this trade benefit exists only until gold is worth less than wood, in which case you would be losing resources. You mentioned selling wood for gold. Don't do that. This is a colossal waste of resources, and the extra wood can usually be spent elsewhere. The only time you should do this is when you NEED to age (which is what you said), but even then you are giving your opponent a huge advantage, as you are essentially throwing those resources away. When I find I have a surplus of resources, my first inclination is to spend. Wood can be used for houses, markets, trading posts, outposts, etc. Gold can be used for mercenaries, market upgrades, etc. Food can be put toward military and villager production. The market's primary purpose is for economic upgrades. Trading resources is only beneficial in certain circumstances. The best solution is to micro-manage your villagers, meaning allocating the right amount of villagers to the right resource. Put simply, use better macro | |
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Limited Member Posts: 288 |
yeah good point, really you should only buy wood or sell food, since wood takes the longest to gather and food takes the shortest to gather | |
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-- Vagina.
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Limited Member Posts: 94 |
Edit: Gold has the best trade value (gold cannot be sold). Gold is gathered faster than wood (.5 gather rate for wood, .6 for gold). Therefore, the British manor boom and the Dutch bank boom may be completed faster when gathering gold and buying wood. The Dutch benefit more from this, as they gather gold at a rate of .69, unique only to their civ. You lose resources every time you trade. The only exception is when buying resources with the advanced market (100 gold buys 100 food/wood), but this can only be done once as the exchange rate increases each time you trade. Sorry for the confusion. | |
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Limited Member Posts: 65 |
You mentioned selling wood for gold. Don't do that. This is a colossal waste of resources, and the extra wood can usually be spent elsewhere. The only time you should do this is when you NEED to age (which is what you said), but even then you are giving your opponent a huge advantage, as you are essentially throwing those resources away. | |
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Limited Member Posts: 65 |
Sorry it was suppose to be a quote (Im really sorry for my bad forum use) @never summer: I don't know about never selling ressource to get a faster aging time. You can look at it as an investment. You will get better units faster, better shipment faster and for exemple your factories will be up earlier, allowing you to get the ressources back (more working time). About selling gold for wood, I think it's dangerous. Okay you will get wood faster. But in a lot of game the gold mines possession (along with hunt) is critical. And you will lost much more ressources if you need to build a pantation (especially in nilla). Wood usually don't have this problem. There is forest everywhere (not in all map okay). But I totally agree with you that the best solution is to actually spend the ressource. Though i find hard to do that with gold (sometimes i don't have merc and i don't need to or can't make cannons). What i really like with this market use is that my eco can adapt very well to a new situation. Your gameplay is less "static", you can change what you want to do very quickly | |
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Limited Member Posts: 94 |
Yea, there are some circumstances when trading resources to age is acceptable. The Dutch aren't very strong in colonial, so if their opponent were to age before them it would make sense to sell excess resources in order to age. But then again, I didn't say never You're right, trading gold for wood can be dangerous. But not for the Dutch. The Dutch have an infinite source of gold: banks. As for the Brits, trading gold for wood is not favorable, it's just one option. I use the Brits probably more than anyone on GR, and I usually just stick to my BO. If you find you have a shortage of gold often, try using 700 and 1000 gold in colonial and fortress, respectively. | |
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Limited Member Posts: 25 |
sry no conclusion, i'm just writing down as I remember... don't drink too much kids, it kills your brain What happens to me often: I'm brit, first fight is over, now I want to manor boom a bit as well as gaining map control, and it's about time to deal with bigger and more variety of army. Also, 2nd hunts around tc start to running out... So, I send few vills forward or grab some from the fb and start building manors, but I am also busy dealing with opponents now better army. I grab a vill, task him 2-3 manors at a time. My problem comes here, specially when I'm expecting a lot of raids and big fight in the middle at the same time. Wood seems to be the most unraidable at least far from tc. I feel dead animal or very limited number of mines on the map is too risky against raid, where as wood is only foundable when a tree finishes. Cav sucks in forest. In addition, even though I'd moved those vills for getting hunts mainly, choosing an animal of the right direction for a waypoint is a lot more demanding than wood nearby, and later I have to keep the hunt inside LOS of manors... eh I'm not so multitasking. Then, I often decide to put many of those foundations waypoint on wood and wait till I get some protection outpost or mb few musks/pikes... wall wtf is that?? Repetition of these while busy fighting gives me excessive wood, yea, better micor is the ideal solution, and one of the reasons, I'm sure, that good players are good is because they can pay attention/control 10 times more than I can, but that's what I got, so I gotta distribute my maximum attention and clicks correctly to win. I'll keep practicing micro but it takes time, so should I use market? or pay more attention to vills and less to fight? What do u say boss? | |
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Limited Member Posts: 25 |
btw i hate outpost for vill protection purpose, probablly nobody would agree lol, sure it gives u some LOS for vills to escape but with few manors I already have it fairly enough or about the same as one outpost, and it kindly warns not me but your enemy passing by "my vills are around here!!" with the sound from far, but it really doesn't kill them, and it doesn't move and attack with my other army... Next time, he brings pikes/hussars etc to kill outpost fast, all your vills are out if garrisoned. If u don't use for garrison, then it's almost the same as manors. | |
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Limited Member Posts: 94 |
Haha great post Casper. Balancing military with economy is probably the most arduous task in AoE. If you focus too much on military, you may lose an economic advantage, and visa versa. The solution, like you said, is micro-management. Here's what you can do: Hotkey your town center, hotkey your rax or stable, and hotkey at least two groups of military. This way you can continue villager production without taking your eyes off the battle. When engaging an enemy, ALWAYS focus on the battle, not villagers. You could win or lose based on how well you micro your units. However, pay attention to your idle villagers. If you see you have some of your villagers idle, wait for an opportune moment to find them (either retreat for a second or wait until opponent retreats), and quickly allocate him/her/them to the right resource. Now, for the Brits. In my opinion the Brits are the third best anti-raid civ, behind Japan and Portugal (China's right up there too). Most people won't take down manors, fearing this may present an advantage to the Brits (as each manor produces 1 villager). Use this to your advantage. Once you get a good feel for just how far manor LOS reaches, you can spread them out perfectly to create somewhat of a barrier from raiding. Additionally, you can use single wall posts as a cheap and effective way of providing LOS. I know you said you are using the manor's LOS to your advantage. That's great. However, the only way to really benefit from this is by herding your hunts, so you will need to do this. If not, you will simply herd them outside of the manor's LOS, rendering their placement useless. One more thing, don't use one villager to build 2-3 houses. Remember, the faster those houses are built, the faster you gain those villagers and the faster your economy grows. I've seen you play Brits. You definitely know what you're doing, I think what's left to learn will only come with practice. And yes, use the market! | |
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Limited Member Posts: 25 |
@nvs ah yes my idle vills all go to wood too most of the time cuz i don't have time to look for new hunts/mines, but wood is everywhere, that makes me use market more (selling wood) lol, but i guess it's better than keeping them idle right? | |
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Limited Member Posts: 94 |
Haha yea keeping them active is definitely better than having them idle. | |
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