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vclan
Site OwnerPosts: 27 |
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Limited Member Posts: 109 |
Ok, here is the China BO I mostly use in 3v3 games on land maps. The thing with china is, they have so many unit upgrade cards (and they need them, as theit units aren't too strong to begin with), you won't be able to fit them all into one deck. So your deck will dictate which unit combo you will use. For me, this is pike/bow, because my pike/bow micro is decent, and because them being a solid combo in general. Idea of BO: as usual, having a roaring eco, while producing enough military so you don't get overrun. You won't have loads of units before 7 minutes, so this strat might not be the best choice if you're facing full out rushes. Deck: I: norther refugees, food silos, exotic hardwoods II: 700 wood, 700 gold, 8 bows, standard army hitpoints, 9 pikes, 7 steppe riders, mongolian scourge, banner school, sustainable agriculture III: western refugees, 1000 wood, repelling volley, double faced armour, acupuncture, royal mint, refrigeration, tectil mill, 5 team manchus IV: great migration, old han reforms, manchu combat, western reforms BO: Discovery: • get all the crates (exceot coin), put 2 vills on wood, rest on food. Build a village. Put the village waypoint on food. • send one vill forward • as soon as you have another 200 wood, build another village at the future forward base, village waypoint on food again, all vills on food • send northern refugees (i.e. 3 vills) • age asap with the summer palace with 4 vills on it (you might want to have a little idle TC time, otherwise you will age too late. I usually stop making vills when I'm at 650 food in order to age up, and start production again asap. Transition: • 6 vills on food, rest on wood, TC waypoint to wood. This distribution will allow for constant vill production during age up, while having enough wood for a rax as soon as you hit colonial Colonial: • gather the 400 age up food, put 11-12 vills on wood, rest on food. TC waypoint to food • send 700 wood asap • build a rax at your fb, start making old han armies asap (you might have to wait 5 sec until you have enough wood) • with the 700 wood build - market (get all upgrades quickly, vills + military goes first though) - consulate (ally with the germans asap) - more villages (don't clump them together. send your vills over the map and secure ressources. each village should at least cover a mine and some hunts. They make your vills unraidable, and are generally great for LOS) • switch shipment point to your forward village, your next 3 cards will be 9 pikes/8 bows/7 steppes in any combination you see fit. See what the others are doing, and send the right cards accordingly • when you can, get the food trickle from the german consulate • I'm not entirely sure how I distribute my vills now. Just have a look at your stockpile and move vills around accordingly. Generally, you will want equal amounts of vills on f/w, but that's just a guess. it depends on market ups, treasures, etc. You'll have to use your macro skills to find out. • get another rax when you realise you're getting more res than you can spend • ship 700 gold next (this will be very very late colonial, you will have sent 4 colo shipments by now) • age up with the wonder that let's you heal your units Transition: • it's all getting a bit blurry now, as it depends how the game has gone so far. • generally, I try to put enough vills on wood during age up, so I can build 2 TCs right away once I have aged up • keep spamming standard armies of course Fortress age: • start building 2 TCs with 8 vills each asap • send western refugees asap (this will be a 9 vill shipment, if you get the TCs up in time) • get the pike/bow upgrades • send the wood trickle from the germans consulate • end alliance with germany and ally with russia (they give you -10% vill train time, as you have 3 TCs now, your boom is ready to roll) • keep on making military • take care of your macro, you will have a huge eco going on, but be sure you manage it well How to carry on: • try to time your age up to Industrial (with the porcelain tower!) that you can send great migration, and have exactly 99 vills • send a factory from your russian consulate • ally with germans again, the cheaper units is needed, because you will • send old han reforms, they make your units more expensive, but also a lot stronger (probably even OP) General hints: • use the waypoint of your villages as you do with brit manors. you will have less to micro when you send vill cards then • always build as many villages as possible before upgrading them for more pop (remember: china has 220 pop!) • make sure you have enough raxes, once the boom get's going you want to be able to pump units fast • you can only make 2 unit armies, take this into account when your team is agreeing on a unit combo • your anti cav sucks before old han reforms, if there's strong cav on the field someone else will have to take care of it • make yourself familiar with the uni upgrade cards. Some change multipliers, which makes bows a lot more effective vs HI and ranged cav. send those upgrades first. • your fortress cav is very good and possibly underrated. If you feel that pike/bow isn't working, switch to food/gold and make iron flails/meteor hammers Please give me feedback guys! Hope you enjoy. | |
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Limited Member Posts: 288 |
Damn, looks like you put a lot of time into this. Good writeup. Just a few things: - How many villes do you go to age 2 with, 16 or 17? I usually find that 16 is much quicker, though I was never very good at china... - I've never really considered sending 700 wood as your first shipment as China, might the pikes be better? It balances your severe cav weakness a bit, and gives you a unit advantage. I guess I'd send 700 wood if I were sure that I wasn't going to get rushed hard, but other than than, either the ckn or pikes shipment seems to be a better option. - Why not use arb/changdao armies once you hit age 3? They're basically the skirm/halb to china's xbow/pike (until you send old han reforms of course) - About the deck, I've kinda come to the conclusion that team mercs aren't generally worth it, since mercs are more effective when you have them all doing the same thing (because of their extra pop), so if you have 2 or 3 players controlling them (or 4 obviously), their benefit from having more manchu is sorta negated, and that gold is pretty necessary for china in age 3 if you are going territorial army or cav. I am, of course talking about the team 5 manchu card. Just my thoughts, great job though. | |
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-- Vagina.
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Limited Member Posts: 109 |
yeah, it's sorta true what you're saying about the manchus. I just couldn't find a better card to use. As I said, this is a 3v3 strategy (although I use it in 1v1 too, with a different deck though). Imo, 700 is imperative, as otherwise you will be houses very early, you will have no consulate, and you might also have problems spamming armies non stop. 700 wood is worth so much villager seconds, it's a good card. Your next 3 shipments will be unit shipments, so unless you desperately need those units early, I think you can get away with it. In 1v1 I might send 300 food as first card, in order to age up faster, but I have no refined BO for it. I usually age up with 17 pop. I don't like going chandao/arquebusier because my eco is already set on pike/bow, and once you're in age 4 you should definately make use of old han reforms, so I kinda don't see the point in switching units just for Fortress Age. There are also like 4 cards upgrading bows or pikes, so they really become good units in the end. Thx for your comments! | |
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Limited Member Posts: 167 |
how about team double pop card in discovery? i find it might be really good...worths 2500wood or so of course it makes china slower @_@ and what do you think of hand mortars? pike+bow doesnt have any anti-falco why do you hate flame throwers? i also think they're not useful in age3 oh and you guys, use old han! their pikes can kill spammed lbs, chu ko nu can kill guard hussars easily. what an OP card | |
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-- ELO Ladder for Mac: http://sites.google.com/site/frailaenima/elo
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Limited Member Posts: 167 |
and i thought that 13vills age up is the best O: how many ppl on wonder? | |
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Administrator Posts: 34 |
Even if Hold Han reforms isn't sent Chu Ko Nu have same basic attack as arquebusiers (21), because one has to take account of their ROF. They've both range attack at ROF 3 but Chu Ko Nu actually fires 3 times for 1 volley, so the basic attack need a x3 multiplier to be compared with arquebusier's attack. However, some cons for Chu No Ku vs Arquebusier : - less hitpoints ; - less range, 16 vs 20 ; - less siege. But if u have researched all maket wood upgrades at fortress, Chu Ko Nu cost less VS. On the other hand, in fortress Qiank pikes attack vs cav is the same as for Changdao swordmen (50), because they have a higher multiplier, but obviously : - less hitpoints ; - less base attack ; - but higher siege ! So if u do micro well with bows/pikes combo keeping old han in fortress instead of territorial ain't a bad deal. U need to research the fortress upgrades but they ain't so expensive and with market wood upgrade and/or porcelain tower on wood if u have it Old Han might cost less VS. Age IV with Old Han reform there is no comparison to make :). | |
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Posts: 290 |
CKN may also miss there targets occasionally. With any archer unit (xbows, foot archers, and the like) arrows may miss and not hit there target. So you may not get full damage on an enemy unit. | |
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Limited Member Posts: 288 |
But if you get all the gold upgrades, arb/changdao cost less VS than Old Han. And I believe we are comparing age 3 old hand to age 3 arb/changdao, so Old Han reforms doesn't come into play | |
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-- Vagina.
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Administrator Posts: 34 |
1) Even with gold upgrades, Old Han cost less VS than territorial 2) That's precisely what I said | |
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Limited Member Posts: 236 |
N00bs! Veteran (dunno that wacky asian name for the upgrade) chu ko nu's look way cooler than arques. But in age IV arquebusiers looks (only slightly tho) cooler. Same for pikes. That's why you should spam old han in age 3 and teritorial in age 4 and 5. Also, the best euro units are culverin and cassadore, because ,again, they look coolest. | |
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-- ... ceterum censeo V-clanem esse delendam. 
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Limited Member Posts: 262 |
thx hastings i have never played china but am going to try your BO out | |
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-- A man wrapped up in himself makes a very small bundle.
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Limited Member Posts: 94 |
IMO the Porcelain Tower is a more effective wonder for age 2. The Summer Palace takes soooooo long to produce banner armies, it's almost not even worth it. The Porcelain Tower gives you a continuous resource trickle of your choosing, which is much more effective in the long-run, and possibly even in the short-term. It allows you to remove a vill or two from wood and transfer that vill (or two) to food, allowing you to produce banners (Old Han in this case) much more quickly and more efficiently. I really don't see any reason to use the Summer Palace in team games. The only time the palace could be useful is in a 1v1 rush scenario, where every unit counts. | |
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Limited Member Posts: 57 |
Here's a strat I made: http://gagclan.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/1997194-chinese-ff?page=last | |
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Limited Member Posts: 93 |
nice | |
--New Gag Site HereSame Login as |V| Clan!
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Limited Member Posts: 262 |
@ nvs. i had an arguement with dans about this. i thought porcelain was better, but he showed me the times for each. If you have the porcelain tower on food, which it gathers faster than any other, then u get 4 food per second. Therefore u get 240 food a minute. The summer palace produces an army every 1 min 35-40 seconds. The rec count comes to about the same, however the summer palace instantley changes the recs to men, which the tower doesnt, therefore the best start is summer palace. | |
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-- A man wrapped up in himself makes a very small bundle.
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Limited Member Posts: 288 |
theres situations for both, but this doesnt prove anything - the fact is that you get more versatility with the tower, in that you dont HAVE to spend resources on men, or you can gather a different resource. personally, unless im rushing, im aging up with porcelain tower, since its effectively 5 villes. | |
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-- Vagina.
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Limited Member Posts: 94 |
I've started playing with the Chinese again (such a fun civ). I timed the wonders while playing. Here are the stats: Porcelain Tower: 3-4 resource/second trickle rate on ANY individual resource. 1 second trickle on all resources. Trickle rate increases each time you age by one second (4-5 in fortress). Summer Palace: 2:30 seconds for Old Han and Standard armies. All other armies require additional time. Time does NOT decrease as you age. Dark you could have won that argument. You just needed the right information. The Summer Palace produces tier 1 armies every 2:30. The Porcelain Tower produces 600 food in that time, or 150 of each resource. | |
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Administrator Posts: 259 |
ns is fully back o_o | |
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Limited Member Posts: 93 |
Yup | |
--New Gag Site HereSame Login as |V| Clan!
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and so is scorched!! AND I PLAYED A GAME WITH FATBADRO A COUPLE DAYS AGOYou must login to post.
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